427: ‘The Shift-2 Crowd’, With Jason Snell
The Talk Show With John Gruber
07/25/25
•132m
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Jason Snell returns to the show to talk about the early PC platform rivalries of the 1980s, iOS 26 leaks (and Apple suing YouTuber Jon Prosser), the various Apple OS 26 public betas and the state of Liquid Glass, and more. (Where by “more” I mean a little baseball and keyboard nerdery.)
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Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good.
Links:
- The MLB All-Star Game "swing-off".
- NuPhy Kick75 mechanical Bluetooth keyboard.
- The weird key layout of the Apple Keyboard (ADB).
- Tinkerboy’s ADB-to-USB adapter. (Email Tinkerboy if you’re interested — he has a USB-C adapter too, not listed on the website.)
- Jason’s keyboard and the switches inside.
- John on Myke Hurley’s “The State of the Workflow”.
- Apple sues Jon Prosser over Liquid Glass leaks.
- Un-redacting the redacted names in the lawsuit.
- Wikipedia on Think Secret and "Nick DePlume", its pseudonymous author. See also: Vintage DF coverage of Think Secret.
- Ray Gun magazine and designer David Carson.
This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.
Previous Episode
426: ‘The Cutting Edge Latest Supermodel’, With David Smith
June 30, 2025
•132m
Special guest David Smith returns to the show for a developer's perspective look at WWDC 2025.
Sponsored by:
- TRMNL: A hackable e-ink display. Save $15 with code GRUBER.
- Squarespace: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code talkshow.
Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good.
Links:
- Michael Flarup's mockup for a MacOS 26 Finder icon
- Louie Mantia's (even better) mockup for a MacOS 26 Finder icon
- Benedict Evans: “The Best Is the Last”
- Podsearch
- Under the Radar
- David-Smith.org
- Widgetsmith
- Pedometer++
- Sleep++
- Widgetsmith
- Hands-On: How Apple’s New Speech APIs Outpace Whisper for Lightning-Fast Transcription
- Tim Cook Reveals Apple’s Vision for Movies and TV
- Musk’s xAI Burns Through $1 Billion a Month as Costs Pile Up
This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.
Next Episode
428: ‘Michigan-Starred Fine Dining’, With Louie Mantia
July 31, 2025
•185m
Special guest Louie Mantia joins the show to talk about Liquid Glass, the various OS 26 updates, and the worrisome state of Apple’s UI design overall. Also: sandwiches.
Sponsored by:
- Quip: A supercharged clipboard manager and text expander for Mac, iPhone, and iPad.
- Notion: The best AI tool for work, with your notes, docs, and projects in one space.
- Squarespace: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code talkshow.
Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good.
Links:
- Louie’s personal website, chock full of downloadable wallpapers, icons, and more.
- Louie, on Alan Dye: “A Responsibility to the Industry”.
- Louie on Mastodon.
- Parakeet, Louie’s design partnership with Luka Grafera.
- Steve Jobs introducing the new icon for iTunes that Louie made (the best iTunes icon ever).
- Daring Fireball: “Sorry, MacOS Tahoe Beta 2 Still Does the Finder Icon Dirty” (with links, at the bottom, to Louie’s mockup of how Liquid Glass versions of the Finder icon should look).
- My polls on light/dark mode preferences on your phone: Mastodon and Threads.
- NeXTStep’s GUI and icons, including the realistic “folders” and super-detailed “home” with shrubbery and a tree in front of the house (and another collection just of NeXTStep’s icons).
- Redweld — Makers of the iconic (no pun intended) expandable files that NeXT’s folder icons were based on.
- The wonderfully skeuomorphic original interfaces for Apple’s iPhone Voice Memos and Podcasts apps.
- Steve Jobs introducing Aqua at Macworld San Francisco in January 2000.
- A July 1986 draft of the original Human Interface Guidelines (PDF) from Apple, including a brief section on “Perceived Stability” (followed by a section on “See-and-Point versus Remember-and-Type”).
This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.
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