428: ‘Michigan-Starred Fine Dining’, With Louie Mantia
The Talk Show With John Gruber
07/31/25
•185m
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Special guest Louie Mantia joins the show to talk about Liquid Glass, the various OS 26 updates, and the worrisome state of Apple’s UI design overall. Also: sandwiches.
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- Quip: A supercharged clipboard manager and text expander for Mac, iPhone, and iPad.
- Notion: The best AI tool for work, with your notes, docs, and projects in one space.
- Squarespace: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code talkshow.
Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good.
Links:
- Louie’s personal website, chock full of downloadable wallpapers, icons, and more.
- Louie, on Alan Dye: “A Responsibility to the Industry”.
- Louie on Mastodon.
- Parakeet, Louie’s design partnership with Luka Grafera.
- Steve Jobs introducing the new icon for iTunes that Louie made (the best iTunes icon ever).
- Daring Fireball: “Sorry, MacOS Tahoe Beta 2 Still Does the Finder Icon Dirty” (with links, at the bottom, to Louie’s mockup of how Liquid Glass versions of the Finder icon should look).
- My polls on light/dark mode preferences on your phone: Mastodon and Threads.
- NeXTStep’s GUI and icons, including the realistic “folders” and super-detailed “home” with shrubbery and a tree in front of the house (and another collection just of NeXTStep’s icons).
- Redweld — Makers of the iconic (no pun intended) expandable files that NeXT’s folder icons were based on.
- The wonderfully skeuomorphic original interfaces for Apple’s iPhone Voice Memos and Podcasts apps.
- Steve Jobs introducing Aqua at Macworld San Francisco in January 2000.
- A July 1986 draft of the original Human Interface Guidelines (PDF) from Apple, including a brief section on “Perceived Stability” (followed by a section on “See-and-Point versus Remember-and-Type”).
This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.
Previous Episode
427: ‘The Shift-2 Crowd’, With Jason Snell
July 25, 2025
•132m
Jason Snell returns to the show to talk about the early PC platform rivalries of the 1980s, iOS 26 leaks (and Apple suing YouTuber Jon Prosser), the various Apple OS 26 public betas and the state of Liquid Glass, and more. (Where by “more” I mean a little baseball and keyboard nerdery.)
Sponsored by:
- Factor: Healthy eating, made easy. Get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box.
- Sentry: The real-time error monitoring and tracing platform that helps dev teams and tech companies build better, more reliable products. Use code talkshow for 3 months free and 150,000 errors.
- Squarespace: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code talkshow.
Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good.
Links:
- The MLB All-Star Game "swing-off".
- NuPhy Kick75 mechanical Bluetooth keyboard.
- The weird key layout of the Apple Keyboard (ADB).
- Tinkerboy’s ADB-to-USB adapter. (Email Tinkerboy if you’re interested — he has a USB-C adapter too, not listed on the website.)
- Jason’s keyboard and the switches inside.
- John on Myke Hurley’s “The State of the Workflow”.
- Apple sues Jon Prosser over Liquid Glass leaks.
- Un-redacting the redacted names in the lawsuit.
- Wikipedia on Think Secret and "Nick DePlume", its pseudonymous author. See also: Vintage DF coverage of Think Secret.
- Ray Gun magazine and designer David Carson.
This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.
Next Episode
429: ‘Weird Turtle Fake Out’, With Matthew Panzarino
August 25, 2025
•133m
Matthew Panzarino returns to the show. Topics include 007 logo creator Joe Caroff’s death at 103, Google’s weird “Made by Google” event hosted by Jimmy Fallon, the UK supposedly dropping its demand for an iCloud encryption backdoor, and Apple’s workaround for the Apple Watch blood oxygen sensor patent stalemate.
Sponsored by:
- Squarespace: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code talkshow.
- Sentry: A real-time error monitoring and tracing platform. Get 3 months and 150,000 errors free.
- Factor: Healthy eating, made easy. Get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box.
Transcripts: Unofficial but surprisingly good.
Links:
- The Obsessor — Matthew’s excellent still-pretty-new blog.
- Joe Caroff, Designer of the James Bond 007 Logo, Dies at 103.
- Jeff Bezos Reportedly “Obsessed” With Casting Wife Lauren Sánchez In Major Role In Amazon MGM’s New “James Bond”.
- Victoria Song: “The Made by Google event felt like being sucked into an episode of Wandavision”.
- Tulsi Gabbard Says the U.K. Government Has Backed Down From Its Demand for an iCloud Backdoor.
- Biden Justice Department downplayed UK demand for an iCloud backdoor.
- Apple Issues a Workaround for the Blood Oxygen Sensor Ban for U.S. Apple Watches.
- Masimo Sues US Customs Over Ruling Permitting Apple’s Patent Workaround.
- “John Oliver Talks T-Shirt Cannons and Slashfics as He Hosts the 2012 Crunchies”.
This episode of The Talk Show was edited by Caleb Sexton.
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