Were the Covid Lockdowns Worth It?
The Daily
03/20/25
•49m
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Five years ago, at the urging of federal officials, much of the United States locked down to stop the spread of Covid. Over time, the action polarized the country and changed the relationship between many Americans and their government.
Michael Barbaro speaks to Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, two prominent political scientists who dispute the effectiveness of the lockdowns, to find out what they think will be required when the next pandemic strikes.
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Guest: Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, authors of In Covid’s Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us
Background reading:
- As the coronavirus spread, researchers worldwide scrambled to find ways to keep people safe. Some efforts were misguided. Others saved millions of lives.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
Photo: Hilary Swift for The New York Times
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Previous Episode
Trump’s Showdown With the Courts
March 19, 2025
•30m
President Trump’s showdown with the courts reached a new milestone on Tuesday, when he called for a federal judge to be impeached and the chief justice of the Supreme Court publicly scolded the president in response.
Luke Broadwater, who covers the White House for The Times, discusses the deportation case at the center of the confrontation — and whether the constitutional crisis that many have feared has now arrived.
Guest: Luke Broadwater, who covers the White House for The New York Times.
Background reading:
- A judge ordered deportation planes to turn around. The White House didn’t listen.
- The order has made the judge in the deportation case a target of Republican anger.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
Photo: Haiyun Jiang for The New York Times
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Next Episode
Why a Worrisome Economy Doesn’t Seem to Worry Trump
March 21, 2025
•30m
As President Trump has rolled out his economic agenda, the assumption has been that he would quickly scale back his most aggressive policies once they began to scare consumers and the financial markets. But that assumption turned out to be wrong.
Ben Casselman, who covers economics, and Maggie Haberman, who covers the White House, explain why Mr. Trump’s economic plan may be backfiring and why he doesn’t seem to mind.
Guest:
- Ben Casselman, the chief economics correspondent for The New York Times.
- Maggie Haberman, a White House correspondent for The New York Times.
Background reading:
- Mr. Trump has said a recession might be worth the cost. Economists disagree.
- Investors thought they had Mr. Trump figured out. They were wrong.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
Photo: Brandon Bell/Getty Images
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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