Them vs Us: What Ukraine Is Really About
New Thinking for a New World - a Tallberg Foundation Podcast
04/28/22
•35m
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As Russia's war on Ukraine grinds on with no end in sight, what's at stake may be changing. At first, President Putin's demands seemed aimed at creating a buffer between Russia and NATO, even if some of his wildest rhetoric envisioned the possibility of kicking the United States out of Europe. But as Blitzkrieg turned into a war of attrition, arguably the confrontation is becoming about something much bigger than European security arrangements. **It's becoming about how the world works, about democracy versus autocracy, about free versus not free. ** Western media caricatures Russia's international support network as thin and vulnerable. In fact, a surprising list of countries, big and small, are either actively or passively supporting Putin's war. China, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Belarus are obvious, but a number of others are at least hedging their bets. Why?
Our guest on this week's New Thinking for a New World podcast has a theory; indeed, more than a theory, he has lived experience. Leopoldo López is a Venezuelan patriot, who has been imprisoned for his efforts to resurrect democracy in his country, and who, it's safe to say, is high on the list of people whom President Maduro wishes would just go away. Listen as Leopoldo explains how the fight to save Ukraine reflects a much bigger, existential fight for freedom everywhere.
Previous Episode
Poland to the Rescue
April 21, 2022
•29m
Russia’s war on Ukraine has set off the largest movement of refugees in Europe since the last World War. Around 5 million people, 90% women and children, have fled the country and at least another seven million people have been internally displaced. Those numbers, as well as the uncounted thousands of civilians who have been killed or wounded, are rising rapidly as President Putin intensifies his strategy of war on cities and on the people who live in them.
At least 2.7 million of these refugees have fled to Poland, a country with a spotty record—at best—when it comes to accepting migrants. But this time is different: even as the country builds a wall on its border with Belarus to keep out migrants from the Middle East, Poles and their government are welcoming the Ukrainians pouring across their border. Why the difference? What do the ordinary Poles who are receiving and sheltering the refugees think? Will there be limits to the hospitality as the war drags on? Could there be a silver lining to this horrible tragedy if it produces new attitudes to migration—or is that too naive?
Marta Górczyńska, a Polish human rights lawyer, is hopeful. She has seen and dealt with her country’s efforts to close the border with Belarus as well as its enthusiastic opening of the border with Ukraine (at least for Ukrainians). Will the better angels prevail? Are there implications for other situations as the tide of migrants rises globally?
Next Episode
Sweden Burning? Really?
May 5, 2022
•36m
We live in the age of the refugee—and the numbers of people fleeing their homes are almost certainly going to continue to increase. Will they be welcomed or will destination countries try to harden borders?
Arguably, no country in the West has been more welcoming to refugees over the years than Sweden has. Progressive, secular, social democratic, Swedes have worked hard to integrate migrants into their society, to help refugees create new lives in their new home country.
How then do you explain what happened last month during Easter when Stockholm, Malmö and other cities were racked by riots and violent clashes between police and mostly Muslim young men? The proximate cause was actual or rumored Quran burnings, but is something more fundamental happening? Many refugees fleeing Middle Eastern wars seem to have decided they don’t want to become Swedes Instead, they want to remain who they are, but to live in a safe, wealthy country. Is there space in Sweden for people who don't want to be Swedish? What if many of those refugees reject Swedish progressive values in favor of Islamic values—whatever that means—in particular? And what does all of this imply for other countries who have not done anywhere near as much as Sweden has to welcome refugees?
Lars Åberg, one of his country's leading journalists and a prolific author, has thought and written about these questions for years. His beat covers social affairs, culture, politics and the media. Listen as he explains what Sweden has done right, but also what it has done wrong.
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